Exploitation + Masculinity Apologist Wreaks Havoc on Boner Killer's FB

This may be a tad reactionary as i'm incredibly angry right now from a conversation with some pornography apologist "poor menz" spokesperson. Okay, i will try and refrain from too much cursing but it will be difficult. I will simply show you the conversation I had with this woman - I won't post her name because i'm not lame. The conversation started when a friend of mine re-posted an article about the harms of pornography and how some pro-feminist men are taking a stand.

Her comments are blue
Mine are red

While I certainly agree that things are getting worse and worse, and that sex is being used as a selling point rather than being about what it should be- intimacy- I still think this article is a bit much. Most of my friends are guys, and I... know they have or do watch porn, yet outside of joking they're not degrading women. No more than women degrade men by berating them over watching porn. While it is a problem if that's all a guy knows about sex, and the extremes are bad, I think this article uses s the "slippery slope" argument making it sound extreme.
I think anyone that takes porn this seriously has other issues.


It's not a bit much at all - Porn is leaking into the mainstream, degradation and humiliation of women is leaking into the mainstream. Women are being infected with HIV AIDS on set as well as various othr health problems an no one cares or ...is doing anything, so yes it is serious, it's very serious. It is the foundation in our rape culture. There is a 17% condom rate in Porn, which means people are becoming infected constantly, not to mention the physical endurance these women's bodies go through. This isn't some fantasy, this is a reality. I'm in touch with several ex prostituted women including women who have been in porn, there stories of rape and survival are paramount to understanding the reality of woman-hating propaganda like porn.

I highly disagree with it being the cause for rape. I don't think porn necessarily brings out these behaviours in men. I know a lot of guys who watch porn, none of them will have sex without a condom. Rape is something else entirely, and I ...think it's ridiculous to blame porn for it. Rape existed long before TV.
While many people in the porn industry may see it differently, many of those women *chose* to be there. Not all, but there are lots of amateurs and porn stars that are women. So in that respect, if a woman chooses to go into the porn industry, then she has to accept what comes along with it. If she's forced into it, that's another matter entirely.
But I'm commenting on saying that it makes all men who watch it chauvinists, this just plain isn't true. While some porn is extreme, most porn is just silly. I don't know anyone that actually takes porn movies seriously.

It's not the cause of rape, in the way you believe it to be...It's much more subtle, it's much more of leaking into the mainstream and regurgitating stereotypes about women, not to mention packing and selling a brand of sexuality for women,... causing us to find our sexuality through a man's.
it's the embracing of rape. I don't care if guys you know where a condom, the point is the porn stars aren't allowed to, thus they get infections, and get ill this is about the well-being of the women in porn and the assholes getting off on it. This isn't about your individual male friends. This is a much bigger problem, a societal problem of woman-hating.

This is about patriarchy embracing and promoting of rape culture which dismantles the idea that women are humans/ I suggest you check out "making violence sexy" by doctor diana russel, it looks at the blatant correlation between viewing pornography and less care for rape victims and rape in general. There's huge over laying correlations that the psychology community has pointed out as well as feminist scholars. We aren't just "making this up" this idea that women are always sexually available and at men's disposal (which is what we see in porn) drives rape culture and male supremacy.

I'll give you some links, to studies and various works that have been dedicated to ending women's opression by patriarchy and capitalism.

Watch the slide-show here, http://stoppornculture.org/

More intensive studies on correlations
http://www.csun.edu/~psy453/porno_y.htm

Check out Gail Dines, Robert Jensen, Andrea Dworkin and Sheila Jeffrey's critiques of pornography and exploitation before you preach for the dudes jacking off to this shit.

some fucking dude cut in the conversation, so i guess i'll add his insightful remark in green

I have a feeling getting involved in this conversation is going to turn very bad for me very quickly, but I don't think I can help it. Why are we labelling everything as either black or white here. Do I view pornography ... on occasion ye...s I do. Now by your above information I am basically a mouth breathing heathen. This couldnt be further from the truth. Anyone who knows me, including the women in my life, know that I am a kind, sensitive man who is empathetic and very sensitive to the needs of those around me. When I see a beautiful woman in a schoolgirl skirt and am attracted to it, that is supposed to mean I want to have sex with a child? Or have somehow been brainwashed into wanting that by the media? WTF. Not on your life, and I honestly find it insulting to think that there are people out there who have the nerve to color everyone with the same brush because of articles written by this or that person. Its the equivelant of saying all black men are the same, or all indian women. Saying everyone who views pornography is contributing to the human rights abuses that happen to some women is assinine. A does not always lead to B and so on and so forth. By this same logic everyone who smokes a joint is contributing to the murder of children. Children do die in drug wars which are funded by peoples 15 dollar bag of weed. I believe the point I am trying to make here, is that if we all spent the same amount of energy loving each other as we do finding reasons to criticize the shit out of men or any other subject that pisses us off .... the world would be a much better place.

I'm NOT saying that women choose to be raped, I'm saying those women CHOOSE to be in porn movies! If they want to complain about being degraded, then they shouldn't be in those movies in the first place! They should know the risks o...f not using condoms, so going out about AIDS statistics is meaningless, because they choose to take that risk. The same as the women on the "slut bus" they talk about, yes it's a terrible thing for guys to do, but you'd have to be a "special" type of girl to sell yourself for money anyway.
Rape is never right under any circumstance, but porn doesn't cause it.

Okay, wait a fucking second. Women do not "choose" shit in porn. What is choice when it is influenced by so many outside factors like class, race and economics? Under capitalism, do poor women have a choice? Really? Under patriarchy, ...do women really have options if they were raped, abused or poor? Go talk to prostituted women about choice, i sure have. What "free" choice is there when there are very little options for poor women - there are many MANY factors that play into choice, to suggest that women "choose" to be degraded is like saying a child working in a sweat shop CHOOSES to be there...in fact they do CHOOSE to work in sweat shops but what choice is that? Capitalism makes choice irrelevant, sweat shop workers work there because it's their only source of income, that's teh same with a lot of prosituted women. Also, if a woman does choose, lets say free from any sort of opression, to be in porn, does it make the systematic abuse of women's bodies for mass profit acceptable?

If you can answer that without the inclusion of logical fallacies, i'd be excited to hear about it.

Also, all porn is fucked up, soft or hard, it's all systematic abuse of women's bodies, it's all patriarchy embracing, it's all harmful because it gives the impression that women are less then men, that our position of the subortinate should be accepted and status quo should be embraced, also that it's empowering somehow, to suck dick on camera and have men dictate your sexuality for you.

Capitalism ties in fully with sexism, classim and racism - all of these things are in porn. Blatant racism exists in porn, use of language like "dirty hood rat" is huge in porn, as well as anti-semitic language and homophobic language. If you want to promote that, Jayme, so some asshole man will like you more, then you are failing your sisters, you are turning your back on liberation.

If you want to read about choice, please PLEASE look at this article written by Robert Jensen, it examines teh factors of this so called "choice" women have in society. Also, look on a global scale, look at the women world wide without any protection from the government, without any protection from their own husbands and their own families. This extends far from the west. It's time to wake the fuck up. You can't continue to support pornorgaphy and still think you support women's liberation and humanity. Porn has been systematically used by people in power to maniuplate, control and abuse women and children - it's a tool used by the powerful to exploit the rest of us. It's impossible to watch porn and care about women. You really have to dig deep inside yourself, find what holds you back and free yourself of it in order to help women as a class. I'm about to blow a gasket, so i'll leave it at this. Look at the robert jensen articles, EDUCATE yourself on these issues.